Harness Bar

[Crazy_C]

I have found out that I need to have a Harness Bar in the back of Katt because of my 4 point harness and the angles that the rear straps are at (thanks to Macca for the heads up on that!)

There is one on eBay.com I have found, but it would work out around the £200 with import tax and there are 2 problems with that
1) I don't want to spend that much
2) I don't have that much to spend

So I was wondering.......................

Can you make your own Harness Bar?? Or rather, is there someone on here who could help me make a Harness Bar??

I have found this image, it was on the eBay listing
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g213/vivaaron/NEW%20Car%20part/harness%20bars/bottom.jpg

And as far as I can see, this is basically a bent scaffold bar or exhaust pipe with plate welded on each end and 2 bars holding it in place. Not worth £200 in my books!!!

If anyone could help me with making one of these for my 4th gen lude, I would be very very grateful :D :notworthy:

I think the main things involved would be:
a) Getting the bar, be it scaffolding or exhaust piping
b) Bending the bar

With the bending of the bar, I had thought about just doing a simple 22.5degree cut into the bar, then rotate one end around, so there is now a 45degree bend in the pipe, and then weld that.



So please :) Can someone help a Crazy Man??? :help:

[Ang]

Our feeling on this one is seriously don't make one yourself. Have a hunt around and you may find something out there. It's not worth taking a chance on your life or any passenger.

[nunchukhamster]

:sign_withstupid:

[Crazy_C]

Damn......... was thinking that you might say that :( I can't afford that at all!!

Will talk to some garages I know and see if they can sort something out cheaper

I really am on such a tight budget it is unbelievable!! I can't afford a proper £200 harness bar, and for what it is, it seems a little extortionate to me.

[Ang]

Looking into it most people are using High Tensile Carbon Manganese Steel (T45)for roll cages and you are probably wondering why I'm mentioning this right now but this is also seamless, light and very strong and tested and I should think you would need this strength for the harness bar (not sure on this one).

It would be really dodgy to put any old bar and weld it in, if it has a seam or even hairline crack then it could be split in an accident. The higher the carbon content in steel than the more brittle it is. I would have thought these bars and roll cages are made from tubes that must have been checked for minute fractures, one inperfection and it will completely split.

When you are saying a 20 stone man could hang from a bar that is totally different to being thrown forward or sideways when you are going to exert a far larger force. Not only that if you have 2 people in that car and you crash its going to be way more than 20 stone in weight.

I will take a hunt around and see what I can find for you.

Hope this is useful.

[Crazy_C]

Yeah, I'd realised about that, but was thinking of using high impact strength steel and getting a fabricator to make a bar up for me. Will be a lot cheaper than £200 that way!!


Cheers Ang :D :D

[Ang]

Yeah, I'd realised about that, but was thinking of using high impact strength steel and getting a fabricator to make a bar up for me. Will be a lot cheaper than £200 that way!!


Cheers Ang :D :D

That's fine just stay away from the exercise bars ;). James could do it but it's not just that, its looking at where the seat belt mounting points should be, the angle of the belts and I am not sure it would work out that much cheaper. You need someone who has a good welder, experience and someone who will do the job for you. Not many people will put their name to it as it could have potentially lethal consequences.

If you buy steel tubes make sure they have been tested/checked and what type of steel it is, generally the cheaper it is the more carbon it will have in it and the more brittle it will be. Its not easy buying steel tubes as all you will get told is its stainless steel.

I know its a large cost but don't give up yet you may find a reasonable one somewhere.

[Crazy_C]

Yeah, looking at the rough angles from what I've seen, a bar that goes straight across should be fine, and then welded straight in. Garage near to me welds in roll cages so they should be able to do that :D

[Ang]

Yeah, looking at the rough angles from what I've seen, a bar that goes straight across should be fine, and then welded straight in. Garage near to me welds in roll cages so they should be able to do that :D

Sounds like a good idea, they should then be able to make sure its safe. :d

[Crazy_C]

Heh, yeah, should be good, though just means more trim will probably be coming out *sighs* :p LOL More stripped out interior!! hahaaa

[Stavros]

With the bending of the bar, I had thought about just doing a simple 22.5degree cut into the bar, then rotate one end around, so there is now a 45degree bend in the pipe, and then weld that.

Tried that on a roll cage once, sadly doesnt work :( as it decided to go flat pack when the jeep toppled :D.

Definately stick with the roll cage guys you mentioned above, sounds like the best bet :)

[lambo-lude]

heres your specs crazy man ...
good enough for them ..good enough for you..not that you need one in the first place being shorter than the eye holes in the seat :rolleyes:

http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/Harness-Bar-E-4-Point-Haness-t19579.html

[Crazy_C]

Well I took it to my garage today and they said that I didn't need a harness bar, not because I'm a short arse or anything, but that the angles are fine and that my seats and harnesses are perfectly installed *high 5 to Lambo dude!!* :)



Solves that problem then eh? :p

Cheers for the help though guys :)

[Ang]

:p I have to disagree with you because you are a man ;), not that I am really disagreeing as being a woman I can change my mind, or have I?:p

I am quoting this from livermoreperformance on the harness fitting (they sell an awful lot of harnesses) and I really think that it should be read by anyone thinking about fitting harnesses. It could be that we have misjudged the angle of the harness, its difficult to tell from a photo and I assume it is fitted as the diagram below shows. Just for the benefit of others who may not know I researched it and tried to find good advice (not third or 4th hand and not guessing). Here we go liverperformance say


WARNING: It is strongly recommended that the shoulder harnesses are fitted as close to horizontal as possible. It is a must that the angle of the shoulder harness does not exceed 45 degrees in relation to the theoretical horizontal axis of the mounting points. It is recommended that the harnesses be mounted to the fixing points suggested by the car manufacturer. The fixing points should always be reinforced by a steel plate fitted on the outer side of the car, not by welding or pop riveting. After an accident or a heavy crash, it is a must to replace the harnesses and carefully re-check their fixing points in the car. Belts should not be in contact with parts which can damage them. Should the belt show any wearing or cuts, it must be immediately replaced.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn314/angdown11/beltmounting.jpg




Do not fix the belt straps in the areas indicated NO! In the event of collisions, the belt would fail to hold the driver's body, and may cause the seat to break.

This is an extra bit of information and does really get home the importance and explanation behind it. This is what I found and its up to the individual to make their mind up.

Harnesses have their own drawbacks. First are roll-over concerns. You should NEVER, EVER use any 4, 5, or 6-point harness in your vehicle without a roll bar. In the event of a rollover a multi-point harness will hold your body upright as the roof collapses on your head. At a minimum you should use a good 4-point roll-cage to help prevent this from happening. The stock 3-point harness, however, does not suffer from this problem. During a rollover accident it will allow your body to move downards with the roof in most cases, helping to prevent crippling neck and spinal injuries.

Secondly multi-point harnesses must be installed correctly in order to be effective. The shoulder harnesses should be attached no lower than six-inches below the shoulder line, and should be at no more than a 45-degree angle from the top of the shoulder to the mounting point. Ideally the belt should be mounted evenly with the top of the shoulder line. Additionally you want some length of seat-belt material between you and the mounting point for adjustability and proper effectiveness. Too much material though can cause other problems.

There are two reasons for these stipulations. First, seatbelts by design are intended to stretch in an impact. This allows your body to slow down gradually in a collision. Too much material between the mounting point can cause an excessive amount of slack after they stretch, allowing your body to escape from the belts. When belts are mounted to the rear seat area of the vehicle, the large amount of material between the mount point and the driver can suffer from this problem. This could allow the body to come into contact with interior parts of the car, like the steering wheel or dash board, or even dislodge completely from the belt.

Secondly by making sure the belts are even with or slightly below the shoulder line ensures proper effectiveness. If the belts are mounted too low they can cause spinal compression injuries in a frontal crash. As the body moves forward the belts pull downward on the shoulders, compressing the spine. This can cause compression fractures in the vertebrae, herniated disks, or even break the spine.

If in doubt please do ask the manufacturers of the aftermarket seats, belts and harnesses for fitting instuctions and safety and the above advice is for guidance only, we do not accept responsibility on the southern petrol head site for an individuals actions. Sorry but need to put this down clearly.

[lambo-lude]

well crazys are in the safe margin :p
is that all cleared up now ? lol :rolleyes:

[Ang]

well crazys are in the safe margin :p
is that all cleared up now ? lol :rolleyes:


Yes looking at one of the photos looks like its possible, definitly hard to tell. Clears it up a bit, bar the recommendations of roll cage. You would be messed up if it rolled as explained in that long, long info piece given :rolleyes: No-one could dispute that one, though I suppose you lot will try :d

[Crazy_C]

Well I am running off of what my garagedudes say :) but that is VERY useful information, thanks Ang :D

[Ang]

When you're up in heaven when you get squashed it will prove very useful reading. :taped: Must stop there :innocent:

[macca]

I'm with Ang on this one, I think you'd be made to drive it the way those harnesses are at the moment. The guidelines are there for a reason, and it's because it's dangerous to mount it at low angles.

I wouldn't get in your car, but it's your choice at the end of the day!